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oio11Linux From Scratch - Version SVN-20161027 Chapter 7. System Configuration
* Prev General Network Configuration
* Next The Bash Shell Startup Files
7.6. System V Bootscript Usage and Configuration 7.6.1. How Do the System V Bootscripts Work?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter07/usage.html
Booting and Shutting Down
http://www.ube.ege.edu.tr/~erciyes/unix_sysadm/kent/boot~1.htm
Chapter 15. init and runlevels - linux-training.be
http://linux-training.be/sysadmin/ch15.html
6.52. Sysvinit-2.86 - Open Source Software on erdfunkstelle.de
http://oss.erdfunkstelle.de/lfs-de/6.3/online/chapter06/sysvinit.html
Signals - The Linux Documentation Project
http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_12_01.html
Other (human) Languages - Linux Documentation
http://linux.die.net/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/other-lang.html
The Linux Documentation Project Works
http://www.tldp.org/docs.html
The Linux Documentation Project Links: Non-English Information
http://www.tldp.org/links/nenglish.html
http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO.html
http://www.sensi.org/~ak/linuxfaq/index_ru.html
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions Alexander Kanavin, ak@sensi.org Версия от 18.02.2003.
Сборник часто задаваемых вопросов (с ответами), связанных с ОС Linux. Последняя версия находится по адреcу http://www.sensi.org/~ak/linuxfaq/
http://.. /~ak/linuxfaq/rulinux.faq.html
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions | Система, ядро, утилиты ...
http://www.linuxcenter.ru/lib/articles/system/rulinux_faq.phtml
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions: Русификация - OpenNet
http://www.opennet.ru/.../rulinuxfaq/rulinux.faq-3.html
Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
Материалы за 18.10.2003 - Страница 7 - Документация по Linux
http://linuxdoc.ru/2003/10/18/page/7/
* Prev General Network Configuration
* Next The Bash Shell Startup Files
7.6. System V Bootscript Usage and Configuration 7.6.1. How Do the System V Bootscripts Work?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter07/usage.html
Booting and Shutting Down
http://www.ube.ege.edu.tr/~erciyes/unix_sysadm/kent/boot~1.htm
Chapter 15. init and runlevels - linux-training.be
http://linux-training.be/sysadmin/ch15.html
6.52. Sysvinit-2.86 - Open Source Software on erdfunkstelle.de
http://oss.erdfunkstelle.de/lfs-de/6.3/online/chapter06/sysvinit.html
Signals - The Linux Documentation Project
http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_12_01.html
Other (human) Languages - Linux Documentation
http://linux.die.net/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/other-lang.html
The Linux Documentation Project Works
http://www.tldp.org/docs.html
The Linux Documentation Project Links: Non-English Information
http://www.tldp.org/links/nenglish.html
http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO.html
http://www.sensi.org/~ak/linuxfaq/index_ru.html
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions Alexander Kanavin, ak@sensi.org Версия от 18.02.2003.
Сборник часто задаваемых вопросов (с ответами), связанных с ОС Linux. Последняя версия находится по адреcу http://www.sensi.org/~ak/linuxfaq/
http://.. /~ak/linuxfaq/rulinux.faq.html
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions | Система, ядро, утилиты ...
http://www.linuxcenter.ru/lib/articles/system/rulinux_faq.phtml
RU.LINUX Frequently Asked Questions: Русификация - OpenNet
http://www.opennet.ru/.../rulinuxfaq/rulinux.faq-3.html
Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
Материалы за 18.10.2003 - Страница 7 - Документация по Linux
http://linuxdoc.ru/2003/10/18/page/7/
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Date: 2016-11-01 09:13 pm (UTC)http://www.sensi.org/~ak/linuxfaq/rulinux.faq-3.html
http://www.sensi.org/~alec/locale
http://www.sensi.org/~alec/locale/locale_i.html
http://www.sensi.org/~alec/locale/locale_io.html
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Date: 2016-11-02 02:02 am (UTC)Debian To Replace SysVinit, Switch To Systemd Or Upstart Debian Замена Sysvinit, Switch To Systemd Or Upstart
Posted by samzenpus Опубликовано samzenpus on Monday October 28, 2013 @01:40PM в понедельник , 28 октября, 2013
An anonymous reader writes "Debian has been one of the last holdouts using SysVinit over a modern init system, but now after much discussion amongst Debian developers , they are deciding whether to support systemd or Upstart as their default init system . The Debian technical committee has been asked to vote on which init system to use, which could swing in favor of using Upstart due to the Canonical bias present on the committee." Анонимный читатель пишет : "Debian был одним из последних оплотов с использованием Sysvinit над современной системой инициализации, но теперь после долгих дискуссий среди разработчиков Debian , они решить , следует ли поддерживать Systemd или Upstart как их по умолчанию инициализации системы . Технический комитет Debian имеет было попросили проголосовать по какой системе инициализации для использования, который может качнуться в пользу использования Upstart вследствие каноническом смещения , присутствующего на комитете ".
Comments:
.. by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: от хунты (36770) пишет: Well, that and Lennart Poettering tends to not constructively respond to requests by users. Ну, что и Поттеринг стремится не конструктивно отвечать на запросы пользователей. He's done some very sophisticated work, but in many ways fails to understand the reality of most sysadmins. Он сделал несколько очень сложную работу, но и во многом не понимает реальность большинства сисадминов. He wants all sysadmins to be able to handle the new capabilities rather than coddle them with plaintext log formats, even though over 95% of the audience doesn't *need* the stuff that is hard to do in a plaintext log format. Он хочет, чтобы все сисадмины, чтобы быть в состоянии справиться с новыми возможностями, а не кутать их с открытым текстом форматов журналов, даже несмотря на более чем 95% аудитории не нужно * * материал, который трудно сделать в незашифрованном формате журнала. MS has done the same thing, system registry, event log, etc all act very similarly to MS сделала то же самое, системный реестр, журнал событий и т.д. все действуют очень похоже
by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: on Monday October 28, 2013 @09:26PM ( от хунты (36770) пишет: в понедельник 28 октября 2013 @ 09: 26PM ( #45264869 ) # 45264869 ) So one prominent example is a push to discard syslog, but at the same time rejecting any suggestion that perhaps it might be nice if the same plain text that journalctl can produce be produced as a matter of course without syslog assistance. Так один из ярких примеров является толчком сбросить системный журнал, но в то же время отвергает любые предположения о том, что, возможно, было бы хорошо, если же обычный текст, который может производить journalctl быть произведены как само собой разумеющееся без системного журнала помощи. Yes, journalctl has more readily accessible nice filters and faster performance. Да, journalctl имеет более легко доступные хорошие фильтры и более высокую производительность. The issue is that the vast majority of people didn't ever need them and made due with grep and friends. Вопрос заключается в том, что подавляющее большинство людей не когда-либо нуждаются в них и сделал из-за с Grep и друзьями. Yes it's not good stuff to build a high-end solution out of, but by the same token journalctl power is more complicated to use. Да, это не хороший материал, чтобы построить высокопроизводительное решение из, но к тому же власти journalctl является более сложным в использовании. Getting early boot messages would have been a straightforward thing to do in syslog land, it was just that no one bothered. Получение ранних сообщений загрузки был бы просто, что нужно сделать в земле системного журнала, это было просто, что никто не удосужился. It was a good thing to add, but generally either things work fine and you don't really care much about the early boot logs, or it fails to get root fs going in which case the logs from that time won't make it to the root fs hosted journal anyway. Это была хорошая вещь, чтобы добавить, но, как правило либо вещи работают нормально, и вы на самом деле не слишком заботится о начале загрузки бревен, или он не может получить корень фс происходит в этом случае бревна с того времени не сделает его корневые фс принимал журнал в любом случае.
I don't like the linux distros of today because they are largely reimplementing much of what people ridiculed microsoft for in the 90s (binary configuration, binary logs, more complex messaging model). Я не люблю Линукс дистрибутивы сегодняшнего дня, потому что они в значительной степени Переопределением многое из того, что люди высмеивали Microsoft для в 90-е (бинарной конфигурации, бинарных журналов, более сложной модели обмена сообщениями). While it is true that generally the details of the implementation are defensibly better than microsoft did, the differences are largely academic to the vast majority of system administrators. Хотя это правда, что в целом детали реализации являются defensibly лучше, чем Microsoft сделал, различия в значительной степени академическая для подавляющего большинства системных администраторов. Vast majority sees opaque binary blob that is useless without a very close match in distribution to provide tools to analyze. Подавляющее большинство считает непрозрачной блоб, что бесполезно без очень тесного матча в распределении по предоставлению средств для анализа. Even when things are humming along fine, things like dbus provide capability in a nearly impossible to explore manner. Даже когда дела жужжат вдоль штрафа, такие вещи, как DBus обеспечивают возможность в почти невозможно изучить манеру. Even with all this complexity, my linux server experience is no more useful than it was 10 years ago from a managability standpoint, but I've had to jump through hoops to try to track the complexity as it emerged bit by bit without a lot of nice capability to come along for the ride. Даже при всей этой сложности, мой опыт работы сервера Linux является не более полезным, чем это было 10 лет назад от managability точки зрения, но я должен был прыгать через обручи, чтобы попытаться отследить сложность, как выяснилось, по кусочкам, не много хорошая возможность прийти вместе для езды. ..
by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: от хунты (36770) пишет: The problem is that some of the difficulties are by design. Проблема заключается в том, что некоторые трудности являются конструкцией. journalctl and systemctl are actually pretty straightforward to use. journalctl и systemctl на самом деле очень проста в использовании. However, when things go off the rails, it's much harder to cope with than a system that retains plain text logs at the core. Тем не менее, когда дела идут с рельсов, это намного сложнее, чем справиться с системой, которая сохраняет простые текстовые журналы в ядре. The argument that journalctl can give you plain text rings hollow when the tool is hard to get to (system had catastrophic failure and you are on the wrong end of a crappy connection but have a random system nearby that can peruse data. Lennart would c Аргумент, что journalctl может дать вам простые текстовые кольца полые, когда инструмент трудно добраться (система имела катастрофические неудачи, и вы на неправильном конце дерьмовый соединения, но есть случайная система поблизости, которые могут просмотреть данные. Леннарт бы с ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/10/28/1621219/debian-to-replace-sysvinit-switch-to-systemd-or-upstart
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Date: 2016-11-02 02:19 am (UTC)Systemd Rolls Out Its Own Mount Tool (phoronix.com) Systemd Выкатывает свой собственный Mount Tool (phoronix.com)
Posted by EditorDavid Опубликовано EditorDavid on Sunday August 21, 2016 @09:34PM в воскресенье 21 августа 2016 @ 09: 34PM from the daemons-that-mount-files dept. из отдела демонами-что-Mount-файлов.
Comments:
.. by lucm ( 889690 ) writes: по LUCM (889690) пишет: Everything in the software world is moving toward micro-services and loosely coupled components lately, but with Linux and Systemd it's the exact opposite. Все в мире программного обеспечения движется в сторону микро-услуг и слабо связанных компонентов в последнее время, но с Linux и Systemd это с точностью до наоборот. Isn't that funny? Разве это не смешно? ..
.. by lucm ( 889690 ) writes: on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:11AM ( #52746177 ) Some of us actually know how to do more than yum -y install. You know -- that old fashioned "compile from source"? Or even find an rpm. The point is not "duh give me teh rpms", the point is why the fuck would you pay $2,000 per cpu per year to get a polite "piss off" from Red Hat whenever support is needed because you installed (from source or other) a version or software that is not in their repo. That's like renting a car that has no radio and bragging that you can go to Best Buy to get a car radio installed in it. If you want the general Red Har ecosystem but you rely on non-supported software, use CentOS for free and be done with it. ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/08/21/2259219/systemd-rolls-out-its-own-mount-tool
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Date: 2016-11-02 02:26 am (UTC)http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/09/02/2037251/you-got-your-windows-in-my-linux
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Date: 2016-11-02 03:13 am (UTC)Submission: Will you be able to run a modern desktop environment in 2016 without systemd? Подача конкурсных предложений: Будете ли вы быть в состоянии запустить современную среду рабочего стола в 2016 году без Systemd?
Posted by samzenpus Опубликовано samzenpus on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @03:10PM в среду 25 ноября 2015 @ 03: 10PM from the let-the-flamewar-begin dept. от выпускаемого-The-flamewar-начинают отдела.
Comments:
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: по phantomfive (622387) пишет: I don't do much init-fiddling although I do like the text based init/runlevel thing, Я не делаю много-Init пустячный, хотя я, как текст, основанный / инициализации на уровне выполнения вещь, It's pretty clear that if KDE depends on one particular init system, that systemd is no longer just an init system. Это довольно ясно, что если KDE зависит от одной конкретной системы инициализации, что Systemd уже не просто система инициализации. ..
by Erik Hensema ( 12898 ) writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @04:34PM ( по Эрик Hensema (12898) пишет: в среду 25 ноября 2015 @ 04: 34PM ( #51004209 ) Homepage # +51004209 ) Домашняя страница Systemd never was, and never will be, just an init system. Systemd никогда не было, и никогда не будет, просто система инициализации. The init system is just a small part of systemd. Система инициализации лишь малая часть Systemd. The init system isn't the part the desktops are depending on. Система инициализации не является частью настольные компьютеры зависят от. It's the interfaces to other subsystems the desktops are depending on, such as the power management interface and the hotplug interface. Это интерфейсы других подсистем рабочие столы в зависимости от, например, интерфейс управления питанием и интерфейсом автоопределения. ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: по phantomfive (622387) пишет: Die Systemd! Die Systemd! I prefer my log files in text format. Я предпочитаю, чтобы мои файлы журнала в текстовом формате. The problem isn't binary logging. Проблема заключается не в бинарное протоколирование. Some people prefer that, it's ok, they should be able to have binary logs on their system. Некоторые люди предпочитают, что это нормально, они должны быть в состоянии иметь бинарные журналы в их системе. The problem is we already have a system for that.....syslogd. Проблема заключается в том у нас уже есть система для этого ..... Syslogd. Instead of completely redoing the way logging works, if they wanted binary logging, then they could make small modifications to syslogd, and then everyone is happy. Вместо того, чтобы полностью переделать способ ведения журнала работы, если они хотят двоичную регистрацию, то они могли бы внести небольшие изменения в Syslogd, а затем все довольны. Switching between binary logs and text logs would be simple. Переключение между бинарными журналов и текстовых журналов было бы просто. Instead, they made a completely new haphazard interface, trying obsolete the system that was alre Вместо этого они сделали совершенно новый интерфейс бессистемный, пытаясь устаревшей системы, которая была ALRE ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: The systemd team didn't create those dependencies, the DE maintainers did. All of these DEs ran just fine without systemd and they still could if someone was interested in doing so. The systemd developers have been active in the DE mailing lists, encouraging them to make systemd a dependency. See here for an example [gnome.org]
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/msg00427.html ..
by squiggleslash ( 241428 ) writes: Better explanation: sysvinit is widely considered awful by most distro maintainers. How do we know this? Well, because distro maintainers have been trying to get away from it for years. Even when everything was run from 'init' there have been multiple refactorings of /etc/*.d to try to produce a better start up environment. At some point, some distributions, notably Ubuntu, switched to an initd replacement called Upstart. Because they were desperate to get away from sysvinit. ChromeOS, possibly the most
by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: I investigated in detail why Debian adopted systemd, and wrote about it here [slashdot.org]. It largely agrees with your post, that people mostly want to get away from sysv init, and of course sysv init has been controversial since it was created, which is why BSD never used it. The problem with systemd isn't the features it tries to provide, the features are good. The problem is the architecture of the software is really bad. There is absolutely no reason KDE should depend on a particular init system. ..
.. by Peter HS ( 38077 ) writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @08:08PM ( #51005555 ) Homepage The problem the non-systemd distros are facing with running a modern desktop are entirely their own fault. Gnome and KDE developers pleaded for years that non-systemd distros or anybody else should start to maintain ConsoleKit which now have been abandonware for almost 4 years. The non-systemd distros ought to realize that it is entirely up to them to maintain their own alternative software stack, and even help out upstreams projects like KDE to support them. At the moment only a single guy is maintaining CK2 and sending patches to KDE so KDE will work with CK2. People whine about "Linux is all about choice", but when it comes to maintain those choices they all shy away with a "I am not a programmer", "No time", "No money" etc. So if you want to run a modern desktop in 2016 on a non-systemd distro, you better start contributing towards it. The same thing goes for OS containers, the new cgroups API and what not. If you want that stuff, don't expect it to magically being made by benevolent pixies nor developers from systemd-distros. ..
.. by steveha ( 103154 ) writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @04:29PM ( #51004177 ) Homepage All of your questions are easily answered by reading the link provided at the top of the article: http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/systemd-and-plasma [davidedmundson.co.uk] Why does the desktop care who's booted it up? The Init System "We don't care. It doesn't affect us." logind Allows KDE to provide user-switching features. Device Management Allows KDE to have access to your mouse and keyboard without root access and without random applications being able to sniff your keystrokes. Inhibitor Locks Allows KDE to react to notifications like "the system is about to go down" and delay until a condition is met (example: delay a suspend until the lock screen is displayed and all your desktop windows are hidden behind the lock screen). timedated and Friends Allows KDE to set time and date without root; allows KDE apps to be notified if time and date gets changed. (KDE currently runs a daemon just to watch for time and date changes, and they would like to get rid of this daemon and simplify their code.) User Units If KDE takes advantage of the "units" in systemd, then when any part of KDE crashes or hangs, systemd will restart the misbehaving part. that implies they won't work on *BSD at all. Right? Правильно? "Projects like [SystemBSD] bring the interfaces we need to BSD and as it gets more stable we should be able to start distributing features." So really, choice is being taken away clear across the board. Either that or I'm missing something really big which implies systemd is not a strict dependency. I encourage you to read the whole article and see what big things you are missing. I don't know about you, but when I read that article I didn't think "Man those KDE guys are idiots, why would they want any of that." It all makes sense to me. It's easier for me to believe that SystemD has some merit than to believe that all the Debian core developers are idiots, plus all the Ubuntu developers, and now all the KDE developers and for that matter the Gnome developers. My biggest concerns with systemd are the monoculture of it all, so projects like UselessD and SystemBSD sound great to me. Force the SystemD guys to document and justify everything, and provide alternatives...
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @03:36PM ( #51003711 ) Journal If you're allergic to trimming your neckbeard and running a modern init, There's no reason a Window Manager should depend on a particular init system. Doing so is a clear sign of bad software architecture. ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: Again, the point under discussion is neither KDE nor Gnome should depend on a particular init system. ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: If any other init system + provided the features necessary for the modern desktop environments, then I'm sure they would not hesitate to support it The init system should not be providing those features. That is entirely the problem. and no one other then systemd has bothered to create a viable solution to the destkop environments problems. What was wrong with Powerdevil and pm-utils? ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/11/25/1728238/will-you-be-able-to-run-a-modern-desktop-environment-in-2016-without-systemd
http://slashdot.org/journal/2152187/systemd---why-did-debian-adopt-it
Journal phantomfive's Journal: systemd - Why did Debian Adopt it? Journal Журнал phantomfive в: Systemd - Почему Debian принять его?
Journal by phantomfive Журнал по phantomfive on Thursday February 12, 2015 @03:29AM в четверг 12 февраля 2015 @ 03: 29AM
There's a Debian debate page , but it's disappointing and everything systemd does is listed with equal value. Там есть страница дебаты Debian , но это разочарование , и все , что делает Systemd перечислен с равным значением. Thanks to Russ Albery for making a much more balanced assessment, explaining what he likes. The short answer to the question is: SystemD makes things much easier for people writing init scripts. Благодаря Russ Олбери для создания гораздо более сбалансированной оценки, объясняя , что он любит. Короткий ответ на этот вопрос: Systemd делает вещи намного проще для людей , пишущих сценарии инициализации. It wasn't about cgroups, or speed, or login managers, it was about writing easy init scripts. Речь шла не о контрольных групп, или скорость, или менеджеров входа в систему, это было о написании простых сценариев инициализации. Here are the major complaints he has with the traditional startup system: Вот основные жалобы у него есть с традиционной системой запуска: * Lack of integration with kernel-level events to properly order startup. * Отсутствие интеграции с событиями на уровне ядра, чтобы должным образом порядок запуска.
* No mechanism for process monitoring and restarting beyond inittab. * Нет механизма для мониторинга процесса и перезапуск за inittab. * Heavy reliance on shell scripting rather than declarative syntax. * Сильная зависимость от сценариев командной оболочки, а не декларативного синтаксиса. * A fork and exit with PID file model for daemon startup. * Вилка и выход ПИД-модели файла для запуска демона.
He furthermore points out these problems with startup scripts: Кроме того, он указывает на то, эти проблемы с помощью сценариев запуска: The model of fork and exit without clear synchronization points is inherently racy, the boot model encoded into sysvinit doesn't reflect a modern system boot, and maintaining large and complex init scripts as conffiles has been painful for years. Модель вилки и выхода без четких точек синхронизации по своей сути колоритный, модель загрузки закодированы в Sysvinit не отражает современную загрузку системы, а также поддержание больших и сложных сценариев инициализации, как конфигурационными файлами был болезненным в течение многих лет. Nearly every init script, including the ones in my own packages, have various edge-case bugs or problems because it's very hard to write robust service startup in shell, even with the excellent helper programs and shell libraries that Debian has available. Почти каждый скрипт инициализации, в том числе и в моих собственных пакетов, имеют различные ошибки края дела или проблемы, потому что это очень трудно писать надежный запуск службы в оболочке, даже с отличным вспомогательных программ и библиотек оболочки, которые Debian имеет в своем распоряжении. ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://slashdot.org/journal/2152187/systemd---why-did-debian-adopt-it
no subject
Date: 2016-11-02 03:24 am (UTC).. by Anonymous Coward writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @05:10PM ( #51004467 ) If you're allergic to trimming your neckbeard and running a modern init, just switch to *BSD where they adopted the features that people are whining about decades ago. ;) Haters hate, but do they know why? Do they have a choice? Do they have Free Will, or were they born unable to tell the difference between choosing software they want to run, and being forced to run software that... they chose? Let's run down the list of "why": - Systemd contains an unchecked null reference pointer that segfaults PID 1. Lennart Poettering states he won't fix it https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s... [freedesktop.org] - Systemd and Gnome allow bypassing gnome-shell password prompts granting root Left unfixed for over a year http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p... [phoronix.com] - Systemd segfaults during upgrades of itself, combined with the new log files that can't be retrieved Mr Poettering says are required to fix the bug, but he will not provide any method for Systemd to generate the logs he demands from it. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/... [opensuse.org] https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/... [utoronto.ca] - Systemd distros can not boot if no ethernet link is present https://lists.debian.org/debia... [debian.org] - Systemd distros can not boot if using certain DNS servers https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bi... [debian.org] - Systemd distros can not boot if using certain NTP servers https://github.com/systemd/sys... [github.com]
- Enabling the kernel "debug" command line option results in boot storage being filled with thousands of dmesg log entries per second from Systemd, and a non-booting system results https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s... [freedesktop.org] - Systemd disables SysRq keys to ensure data loss after any of the many many instances it is coded to fail under https://lists.debian.org/debia... [debian.org]
Re:The cabal has won.
by Anonymous Coward writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @03:34PM ( #51003695 ) is no longer the ancient monolithic beast you learned to love Don't you mean "is becoming the monolithic beast we moved away from when we first wiped our Windows install"? Modularity with a standard interface and substitutable glue - ie small tools which each do one job well, always with alternative implementations - were the hallmark of Unix. Now the alternatives are Lennart's software or clones of Lennart's software, and a BUG is something which doesn't work exactly like Lennart's software. No, the reason for systemd isn't that it's better. systemd has been chosen for the same reason almost everyone votes Democrat or Republican, spending ages arguing over minor details but failing to see that there's no real choice at all: if you boil the frog slowly enough and distract them hard enough with shiny, people stop paying attention to what's going on. Linux the kernel goes from strength to strength, but GNU/Linux the desktop operating system is over, and Linux servers are fast becoming Lennartix. Is this good? Это хорошо? IDK, is the cathedral model of software development good? It worked for OS X. But it's not the same system at all. ..
.. by Anonymous Coward writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @06:31PM ( #51004959 ) Wait a week, I'm sure some of the systemd authors are working one now. It will only save its data in incompatible binary modes, will fracture the kernel on a regular basis, and will replace every file you edit with a symlink to /tmpfiles.d/. But hey, it least it will start fiast! ..
.. by Anonymous Coward writes: on Wednesday November 25, 2015 @04:26PM ( #51004131 ) Systemd is not (supposed to be) part of the desktop environment either, it's supposed to manage starting system daemons like sshd, httpd, dhcp, networking services, access to your keyboard, graphics management, and many other things that a system daemon starting utility has no business being involved in. The problem is that a large number of current required services are no longer properly maintaining their "non systemd" startup config and code, and are instead relying on the half-baked garbage that is systemd. Anyone who disagrees with the switch to systemd is then countered with social pressure and "get with the modern world, loser!" type arguments, rather than actual technical reasons, since for the most part, there aren't any. (Cue systemd fans giving reasons like "if it wasn't good, then nobody would be using it! Everyone else is doing it, get with the modern world loser!" now...) ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/11/25/1728238/will-you-be-able-to-run-a-modern-desktop-environment-in-2016-without-systemd
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/11/25/1728238/will-you-be-able-to-run-a-modern-desktop-environment-in-2016-without-systemd
http://slashdot.org/journal/2152187/systemd---why-did-debian-adopt-it
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://slashdot.org/journal/2152187/systemd---why-did-debian-adopt-it
no subject
Date: 2016-11-02 03:32 am (UTC)http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
no subject
Date: 2016-11-02 08:13 pm (UTC)http://people.torproject.org/~lunar/20160331-CloudFlare_Fact_Sheet.pdf
http://blog.torproject.org/blog/trouble-cloudflare
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://blog.torproject.org/blog/trouble-cloudflare
no subject
Date: 2016-11-02 08:32 pm (UTC)Posted by timothy on Monday May 11, 2015 @07:28AM from the shades-of-the-gnome-transition dep
jones_supa writes: After Debian adopted systemd, many other Linux distributions based on that operating system made the switch as well. Ubuntu has already rolled out systemd in 15.04, but Linux Mint is providing dual options for users. The Ubuntu transition was surprisingly painless, and no one really put up a fight, but the Linux Mint team chose the middle ground. The Mint developers consider that the project needs to still wait for systemd to become more stable and mature, before it will be the default and only option.
Comments:
.. by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: on Monday May 11, 2015 @08:49AM (#49663235) SystemD - works well when it works, fails spectacularly when it fails. Incidentally that is precisely the way Windows is. Windows is exceedingly structured and engineered (contrary to some beliefs), but as a a result when it fails... boy does it go down so hard that no one is going to bring it back. Not surprising many of the principles in Windows design match the design principles of many modern linux distros: Binary configuration files, binary log files, increasingly complex IPC schemes, and less and less friendly to simple scripts (though increasingly better for complex scripting). ..
.. by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: on Monday May 11, 2015 @09:04AM (#49663321) dconf uses binary configuration files. As I've said many times, while systemd catches a lot of flak for messing with long standing conventions, it is far from alone in modifying the experience (dbus, dconf, systemd, udev all do interesting things, each component bringing interesting capability with varying degrees of drawbacks). I think udev generally does a great job of delivering useful capability with minimal downside. Then dconf (most people don't even realize the binary dconf files exist, even when they poke dconf extensively). dbus starts going off the rails (many things that once were simple enough to explore/grep around for are now only possible through internet search of obscure dbus-send commands). systemd I actually consider less bad than having to do more and more dbus stuff. ..
.. by Junta ( 36770 ) writes: Right now the 'debate' is in full on 'no true scotsman' fallacy mode. No *real* users are complaining, so all people who *sound* like they are complaining need to shut up. If you complain, you must not be a *true* user. ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: you know what makes a good UNIX or UNIX-like operating system? The tools, specifically those that are well-written and do one thing and do it well
This link has a pretty good summary
( http://catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/ch01s05.html ).
I summarize the Unix way as "write good code." ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: on Monday May 11, 2015 @10:41AM (#49664115) Journal The reason so many distros have adopted systemd is because it fills a need: it does something useful for them. This topic ( http://slashdot.org/~phantomfive/journal/2152187 ) has been exposited ( http://slashdot.org/~phantomfive/journal/2155641 ).
In the second link, note how much shorter the unit file is than the init script. That is why distro maintainers have adopted systemd, because they have to write less code. So Lennart found something people needed, and built it. That's why people adopted it. You don't have to like systemd, but you should at least understand why it's been adopted. ..
.. by phantomfive ( 622387 ) writes: Russ Albery [debian.org] has a good discussion of the topic. You may not agree with him, but you ought to be aware of his points. For example,
Sysvinit [is] simply inadequate.... The model of fork and exit without clear synchronization points is inherently racy, the boot model encoded into sysvinit doesn't reflect a modern system boot, and maintaining large and complex init scripts as conffiles has been painful for years. Nearly every init script, including the ones in my own packages, have various edge-case bugs or problems because it's very hard to write robust service startup in shell, even with the excellent helper programs and shell libraries that Debian has available. A quick perusal of /etc/init.d/skeleton and the complex case statements and careful attention to status codes required for a proper init script makes this case clear. ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/05/11/085208/linux-mint-will-continue-to-provide-both-systemd-and-upstart
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/05/11/085208/linux-mint-will-continue-to-provide-both-systemd-and-upstart
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 12:46 am (UTC)Posted by samzenpus on Monday October 28, 2013 @01:40PM from the changing-it-up dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Debian has been one of the last holdouts using SysVinit over a modern init system, but now after much discussion amongst Debian developers, they are deciding whether to support systemd or Upstart as their default init system. The Debian technical committee has been asked to vote on which init system to use, which could swing in favor of using Upstart due to the Canonical bias present on the committee."
debian init mycolddeadhands
Slashdot Items Tagged "debian" ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/10/28/1621219/debian-to-replace-sysvinit-switch-to-systemd-or-upstart
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/10/28/1621219/debian-to-replace-sysvinit-switch-to-systemd-or-upstart
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 01:01 am (UTC)Posted by EditorDavid on Sunday August 21, 2016 @09:34PM from the daemons-that-mount-files dept.
An anonymous Slashdot reader writes: I'm surprised this hasn't surfaced on Slashdot already, but yesterday Phoronix reported that systemd will soon be handling file system mounts, along with all the other stuff that systemd has encompassed. The report generated the usual systemd arguments over on Reddit.com/r/linux with Lennart Poettering, systemd developer and architect, chiming in with a few clarifications. Lennart argued it will greatly improve the handling of removable media like USB sticks. debian linux os
Comments:
.. by silentcoder ( 1241496 ) writes: on Monday August 22, 2016 @05:27AM (#52746501) Indeed. We didn't mind simpleinit, or upstart or openRC or slackware's BSD-init - all of these were different init systems in the past. We didn't mount autofs or any of a dozen mount helpers added on top of the unix basic during the years.
To suggest that the opposition to SystemD is generically opposing change is to ignore that the people opposing it have been embracing change in all the areas where it plays for decades and are STILL embracing change in those areas - we're just not embracing THIS change because we believe it's badly designed. Having this many basic tools in a common code-base with massive interdependency that makes it near impossible to swap tools out with other tools or run any of them without running all of them... THAT Is a terrible design.
Hell, we don't even do that on the desktop where it may almost make sense. For over a decade KDE has had performance improvements if you run KDE apps in a KDE desktop - but never, once, did we have a KDE app you couldn't run under Gnome or OpenBox or any other DE you want. The coupling was always weak - use the features when available, don't depend on them. And vice versa - all the apps ran under all the desktops. You didn't struggle to run gimp or libreOffice if you chose KDE as your desktop - despite neither of them being written for it. In fact, there were patches you could install to integrate them better which were entirely optional.
That's a good design.
by silentcoder ( 1241496 ) writes: on Monday August 22, 2016 @07:23AM (#52746779) You know it's weird, but there is literally not a single thing on your list that Linux hasn't been used for successfully and doing successfully for the better part of 20 years. None of these are new problems. So since systemD is only 6 years old and most major distro's didn't adopt it until the last 3, I guess all of us were just suffering some mass delusion when we watched all this stuff working beautifully back in 2000 when nobody had ever concevied of systemD - and progressively get better every year since.
Now nobody is saying that there cannot be better solutions for this - what I can tell you is that a better solution CANNOT come from a massive bunch of tightly coupled tools with opague interfaces that are so utterly cross dependent that none of them can run (at least without massive hacks) unless you also run all the others.
The ONLY way to EVER do a good solution - especially at the system level - is to build it out of lots of LOOSELY coupled tiny bits that don't care how you put them together or what you put them together with (including pieces that the creators never knew existed). That design has allowed an OS first compiled in 1969 to scale to the largest supercomputers and the smallest embedded devices alike, to survive 50 years of computing history jumping from platform to platform and architecture to architecture, resilient across one major revolution after the other - because it could adapt to any need and any use-case. Because you never had to redesign it to meet a new challenge, you just had to add a few small tools to the mix, and put the others together in a new way.
The lego-blocks approach is the heart and soul of the unix philosophy - and it's a philosophy worth preserving because that philosophy is literally the ONLY thing that has caused Unix to be the single longest-living architecture in computer history. It's an architecture that's so easy to evolve that no revolution was out of it's reach. From mainframes to PC's to phones - it went where the hardware went and was consistently the most reliable and cheapest and fit-for-purpose answer because it was designed to be easy to rebuild by simply taking the blocks and hooking them up in a new way that Kernighan and Ritchie never imagined.
In other words - everything SystemD is not.
We love doing things in new ways, we love change - but we're GOOD at spotting the difference between progress and regression - and systemd is NOT progress, systemD is doing on Linux the exact same mistakes that every operating system besides unix in history has made. If it remains dominant too long - the outcome will be that Linux goes the way of Multics or VMS because, like those, it will not be able to survive the next revolution. ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/08/21/2259219/systemd-rolls-out-its-own-mount-tool
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/08/21/2259219/systemd-rolls-out-its-own-mount-tool
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 01:24 am (UTC)Posted by timothy on Sunday February 09, 2014 @01:26PM from the process-as-process dept.
sfcrazy writes "Bdale Garbee,chairman of the Debian Technical Committee, called for a ballot from the TC to chose the default init system. The votes are in systemd is the clear winner here. Bdale himself voted for systemd." debian ubuntu linux
Comments:
.. by Heraklit ( 29346 ) writes: on Sunday February 09, 2014 @01:31PM (#46203373) Homepage Journal Please. Get your facts straight. the default init system for Linux architectures in jessie ..
.. by beelsebob ( 529313 ) writes: systemd was not a GNU project, so to suggest this is a GNU/linux distro is as fallacious as claiming that it's Poettering/Sievers/Linux distro.
What it is, is Linux. This particular project has some parts written by the GNU, and some parts written by Poettering/Sievers, and some other parts written by some other people. Stop trying to imply that the GNU is the be all and end all of user land software on Linux. ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/02/09/1725229/debian-technical-committee-votes-for-systemd-over-upstart
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/02/09/1725229/debian-technical-committee-votes-for-systemd-over-upstart
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 01:29 am (UTC)Comments:
.. by somenickname ( 1270442 ) writes: My Debian system has 57 init scripts. If that kind of complexity scares you, perhaps computers are not for you.
Mine has 96, averaging 120 lines per script. I never said it scares me. I'm merely making fun of the aversion to Systemd's complexity, by highlighting the fact that you already have such complexity, but it's pushed out and duplicated (usually poorly) in your init scripts. ..
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/10/01/2155209/multiple-linux-distributions-affected-by-crippling-bug-in-systemd
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/10/01/2155209/multiple-linux-distributions-affected-by-crippling-bug-in-systemd
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 01:33 am (UTC)http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/08/25/1730245/choose-your-side-on-the-linux-divide
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/08/25/1730245/choose-your-side-on-the-linux-divide
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 01:39 am (UTC)http://linux.slashdot.org//tag/debian
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org//tag/debian
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 02:37 am (UTC)http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/PostgreSQL/
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/PostgreSQL/
netdisco
no subject
Date: 2016-11-03 03:31 am (UTC)http://metacpan.org/release/App-Netdisco
App::Netdisco - An open source web-based network ... - MetaCPAN
http://metacpan.org/pod/App::Netdisco
http://www.cpan.org/
no subject
Date: 2016-11-04 12:18 pm (UTC)Posted by samzenpus on Sunday February 15, 2015 @05:10PM from the taking-sides dept.
lkcl writes The introduction of systemd has unilaterally created a polarization of the GNU/Linux community that is remarkably similar to the monopolistic power position wielded by Microsoft in the late 1990s. Choices were stark: use Windows (with SMB/CIFS Services), or use UNIX (with NFS and NIS). Only the introduction of fully-compatible reverse-engineered NT Domains services corrected the situation. Instructions on how to remove systemd include dire warnings that "all dependent packages will be removed", rendering a normal Debian Desktop system flat-out impossible to achieve. It was therefore necessary to demonstrate that it is actually possible to run a Debian Desktop GUI system (albeit an unusual one: fvwm) with libsystemd0 removed. The reason for doing so: it doesn't matter how good systemd is believed to be or in fact actually is: the reason for removing it is, apart from the alarm at how extensive systemd is becoming (including interfering with firewall rules), it's the way that it's been introduced in a blatantly cavalier fashion as a polarized all-or-nothing option, forcing people to consider abandoning the GNU/Linux of their choice and to seriously consider using FreeBSD or any other distro that properly respects the Software Freedom principle of the right to choose what software to run. We aren't all "good at coding", or paid to work on Software Libre: that means that those people who are need to be much more responsible, and to start — finally — to listen to what people are saying. Developing a thick skin is a good way to abdicate responsibility and, as a result, place people into untenable positions.
linux opensource programming
http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/02/15/1959209/removing-libsystemd0-from-a-live-running-debian-system
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/02/15/1959209/removing-libsystemd0-from-a-live-running-debian-system
How to remove systemd from a Debian jessie/sid installation From Without Systemd
Contents * 1 Sysvinit * 1.1 Installing Sysvinit * 1.2 Grub Configuration * 1.3 Purge Systemd * 1.4 Pin Systemd Packages * 2 polkit
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation
http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/
Welcome to Devuan Jessie 1.0 Beta Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd. Its Beta release marks an important milestone towards the sustainability and the continuation of Devuan as a universal base distribution.
.. Distributions based on Devuan Various operating system distributions have already started adopting Devuan as a base OS. Here below a list in order of chronological appearance * Gnuinos http://gnuinos.org * Refracta http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta * Nelum-dev1 https://sourceforge.net/projects/nelum-dev1 * Star https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix * Zephyr https://sourceforge.net/projects/zephyrlinux
Packages The package repositories for Devuan are exclusive and they should not be used in addition to Debian:
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main
We provide access to our package repository also via Tor: install apt-transport-tor and then use the following hidden services
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie main deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-updates main deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged jessie-security main
* Here a list of packages we have forked from Debian * Here the packages specifically built for Devuan * And here the infamous blacklisted packages
..
http://devuan.org/
no subject
Date: 2016-11-04 01:30 pm (UTC)Posted by EditorDavid on Sunday May 29, 2016 @05:33PM from the features-not-bugs dept.
New submitter nautsch writes: systemd changed a default value in logind.conf to "yes", which will kill all your processes, when you log out... There is already a bug-report over at debian: Debian bug tracker. The new change means "user sessions will be properly cleaned up after," according to the changelog, "but additional steps are necessary to allow intentionally long-running processes to survive logout. To effectively allow users to run long-term tasks even if they are logged out, lingering must be enabled for them."
debian os systemd
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/29/212204/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/29/212204/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default
Fefes Blog
http://blog.fefe.de/
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://blog.fefe.de/
Systemd Starts Killing Your Background Processes By Default Posted on June 6, 2016 by Andrew Zwieg
http://blog.zwiegnet.com/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default/
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=auto&tl=ru&u=http://blog.zwiegnet.com/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default/